The whole plan smelt to high heaven, shady notification to the public, only one polling place.
I won't be surprised if the incumbents lose the next fire election.

If the fire department had been more fiscally responsible in the past, maybe the residents would have approved it. But in the wake of the TR Schools scandal, enough with the irresponsible spending. Even Mr Kubiel stated that this process was rushed before the end of the year. These people need to realize the residents tax dollars are not a blank check.

HIGHER TAXES

Good. Not only was the location terrible due to the high volume of traffic, but our taxes are sure to go up, something no one needs in these bad economical times.

This reminded me of the Christmas referendums Mike Ritacco used to try to sneak through -- always around the holidays when people are too busy to pay attention. Surprise, folks -- it didn't work this time.

Glad it didn't pass... for several reasons. Score one for the public.

Thank you to the Patch for keeping the public informed. Personally, I don't object to a new, combined facility. However, the entire plan, including the cost of the property and the building should be presented to the public so they can vote intelligently. The plan should also include what will be done with the existing locations (ie, sold, turned into a museum, etc). I also agree that the location should be more out of the main flow of traffic both from a traffic perspective and a safety perspective. There are plenty of parcels out of the main stream that would probably be less costly and more effective. As to the statement about "misinformation", it was the lack of "honest and complete information" that turned this into the firestorm that it became!

kubiel - " misinformation?????? how about no information - one polling place - december election - " no idea of future costs etc etc " - the voters have not spoken - THEY ARE YELLING !!!! can you hear me now????? ENOUGH !!! you have a vested interest and are not working for the best interest of the taxpayers of toms river who elected you to township committee. as for the mayor and others on the committee who supported this money grab your motives are in question as well.

I would like to thank the Toms River Patch for providing excellant coverage of the issue. Local TR coverage is far better via Patch than the established local newspaper.

I believe this election was defeated by the Company 1 and Company 2 members who did not approve of the ballot question. It was good that more citizens became involved in a Fire election but if the firemen and women wanted this project to float the vote would have gone the other way because not only the firemen vote, their families and friends vote too.

The bottom line is a bad idea pushed foward in an improper manner was defeated. Some politicians got a black eye in this one.

Plany, "Only 2 seats are open in 12 for two wards" Is one of them Kubiel's? in ward two?

SB Girl,
The two existing locations are not owned by the township so therefor if they were to be vacated it would be the private owners (I.e the organizations of TRFC #1 and TRFC #2) to do as they please. Just like if one of the other occupants downtown decided to sell there property. This entire thing became less about what will properly serve the community in a fire protection sense and more about D's vs R's and who's got the bigger stick. The volunteer firefighters in this town do an amazing job responding to as many calls for service as a lot of municipalities with full-time paid departments and in some cases I feel do a better job, all the while keeping the fire tax substantially lower than it would be. If a "career" department was ever to be instituted in this town you can expect your annual operating budget to multiply by 4 times. And that is according to an indepentant study done years ago. If the fire companies want new buildings that is fine, I do believe the existing facilities are out dated. As a long time firefighter myself I know that apparatus and equipment have increased substantially in size since the early days but let's do this the correct way.

And at the end of the day, we do appreciate the volunteer fireman. There will be a new property available at a later date better suited when the people of Toms River are better off financially. I see to many foreclosures and other problems that have to be considered right now. Let's have a really great Christmas Holiday everyone. <3

GaryNJ85, well said and I can assure you most the opponents agree with you. The Firemen and Company should not be caught up in politics and that was THE MISTAKE! and caused this failed referendum. Also of note, politics is supposed to be tactical. The BID as well as the Mayor and Council should have never engaged this. The statement "the misinformation being circulated by an anti campaign being put out by the Dems" failed miserably. Mr Leone, a well respected Democrat entered the ring, and as for his presence help dispel the Democratic anti campiagn "rumor". I hope the Firemen get what they need and which the taxpayers can afford

Made a mistake! Mo Hill and McGuckin's seats are up for 2012. McGuckin leaves for Assembly and Mo Hill's ward seat will be up since he won council at large this past November.

My father was a career fireman and I supported the department decisions as they were for the public good. But this election left too many important questions unanswered; and the way it was organized was questionable.
The people have spoken!

Don't worry they are like spoiled children and will keep trying to pass this until like a parent wanting to be responsible you will finally give in because you are just too tired constantly saying no.

Sneaky sneaky sneaky. This town just loves to spend spend spend even though the economy is in the dumper. Thank God the residents of Toms River are finally waking up. Now if they would only come to council meetings, maybe thing would change for the better!!

Don't despair, taxpayers: Even though the Kelaher Klan won in November, this sneaky project may have been the last straw for voters. For example, the newly elected Repub. Gov. in Wisc. is already facing recall for his over-reaching actions, Same here.

Paid fire commissioners should be replaced in Feb. Ritacco friends on school board should be kicked off in spring. Kubiel and 3 of his cronies have to go next Nov. (4 council seats are at stake.)

They all have to be stopped from spending our money like drunken sailors!

"Kubiel and 3 of his cronies have to go next Nov. (4 council seats are at stake" saod Martin. What is your deal. Only two seat are up in 12, Ward 3 and 4. No chance of any control till 13. For goodness sake the Kelahae just beat the pant's off Brush as did the council.

Thank you Patch for being a voice to stand up to the political machine in Toms River and defeating another one of their schemes. Today is a victory for Patch and common sense in Toms River! Job Well Done Ms. Galiotto! Keep up the pressure! With your help we can get these people off the school board and council in 2012!

We are a Faukner Act government with an elected mayor, 7 member council of 3 at large and four ward system of four year staggered terms. Sooo....Hill and McGuckin have vacated, resign, their seats with replacements to be appointed by the R committee. That term runs its 4 cycle. Donahue was council at large, replaced with Manforti, and since mayor and council at large were just elected, Mo Hill took one seat. My question is was Manforti left to then fill the ward seat given up by Hill? My other question is, now if the cycle is staggered, and it is, it is on the odd numbered year election years that Mayor and Council terms are electable. So no one is up for election in 2012? Wow! Mark Mutter where are you when we need you?

The Faulkner Act, or Optional Municipal Charter Law, provides for New Jersey municipalities to adopt a Mayor-Council government.

This form of government provides for election of a mayor and five, seven, or nine council members. All council members may be elected at large, or some may be elected by wards; they may be partisan or nonpartisan, and serve four-year concurrent or staggered terms. There may be up to ten administrative departments.[1]

What is with the lag time on here? It seems "replies" and "leave comments" are posted on different time frames. It is difficult when you read a comment and make a comment and you lose substance or miss other info to better make a qualified statement

1) The fact that this election was SNUCK IN just a month after the General Election has all the trappings of a WEASEL DEAL Bravo informed electorate of Toms River! Bravo!

2)The fact that ANY ADMINISTRATOR would do a SNEAKY ELECTION the WEEK before Christmas like this makes you want to question what other deals he is doing as an Administrator for the TRFD, never mind Councilman. It make you question their values and judgement

3)Have we found out WHO owns the existing property, When it was purchased, and how much would be the profit in a year or two?? Could this perhaps a New Episode of "Flip This Republican Property".

4) Nice touch... a Generator for a training facility... Bring the friggin truck with the emergency lighting stupid, thats why its a TRAINING FACILITY!!! Use what you got!!!

To the Patch staff and Catherine THANK YOU for ENLIGHTENING the public as the APP is out of business as far as local news in concerned. Nice touch reminding us it was election day the WEEK BEFORE CHRISTMAS

Does anyone have the number of the US ATTORNEYS OFFICE??? I think it may be time to put them on speed dial!

If anyone in this room had any wherewithall they would KNOW that the 4 wards are for a four year term. They won in 2009 they are up in 2013. THE only 2 that are up once again are in ward 3 and 4 in 2012 take that to the bank. Martin is a nut.

Also Matin stated that Mcguck was an At large councilman in TR. Since when? He has been the Ward 4 guy for years. LOL

There will actually be five (5) council seats at stake in November: (1) the Ward 3 seat being vacated by Hill, (2) the at-large seat being vacated by McGuckin( REALLY SINCE WHEN WAS MCGUCKIN AT LARGE?), (3) the seat vacated by Donohue-Appleby and temporarily filled by Manforti's appointment, (4) the seat of Maruca( WON IN 09 TO A FOUR YEAR TERM UP IN 13), and last but not least (5) the seat of KUBIEL( WON IN 09 TO A 4 YEAR TERM), who was the ringleader of Thursday's botched referendum.

How can we get the terms changed from four years to two? Four years is way too long.

Go to the County Elections archives. You will see Maruca, Kubiel, Hill and McGuckin won in 2009 for a FOUR year term to expire in 2013. McGuckin and Hill are being replaced only in 2012. The at large and Mayor just won last month and have 4 long years. Also, this Martin poster is way wrong. McGuckin was never at large. Me thinks this 'Martin" poster has no clue.

There will be three seats up in November 2012!

In my opinion this wasn't a Republican or Democrat victory/loss. It was a victory for Toms River and it's Taxpayers.

HEY GREG....REPLIED IN CAPS... Greg 10:07 am on Saturday, December 17

Mr. ?, The seat that vacated by Donahue-Applebee was filled by Manforti. I SAID THAT! But, if you remember from the news paper Manforti is a Ward 4 member. BUT HE WAS APPOINTED COUNCIL AT LARGE - WARD DOES NOT MATTER. So, here is a possible situation that many have found to be a majoe possibility now that McGuckin was elected to go off to Trenton. McGuckin was the Ward 4 person so now with him leaving that leaves the opening for Manforti WHY WOULD THEY TAKE MANFORTI AS DONAHUE INTERIM OUT? WOULDN'T THE R CLUB APPOINT SOMEONE ELSE UNTIL MCG (WARD 4) TERM IS UP. DONAHUE'S SEAT COULD HAVE BEEN UP FOR ELECTION THIS FALL. SHOWS THAT COUNCIL SEATS ARE STAGGERED, BOTH WARD AND AT LARGE? to take over the remaining year of his term. Now, it is up to the Republican Club to vet a person from Ward 3 to take the seat that was vacated by Mo Hill. AGREED!. Now, I thought that with the next Ward election all 4 of the seat were up for grabs.IN 2013, BUT ARE THEY ALSO STAGGERED? Here is how I understood how the elecctions went. Mayor and 3 Council at Large seat went up at the sametime and then the 4 Ward seats went up a year later. THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT, BUT THAT IS THE QUESTION! Mr. Mutter am I wrong? If I am please correct me. AGREE AGAIN!I AM SURE THE PATCH WILL CATCH UP WITH THIS MONDAY!!!!!!!!!!!

Duh! My bad as well! Hey Greg, I think you may be mostly right. If all three council at large seats were elected this past November, then why wouldn't all the ward seats be elected at the same time? Mo Hill was elected to Donahue's spot, filled in by the appointment of Manforti, now making making Manforti a free agent to be moved to ward four ( in which you said he lives ) to fill McGuckin's vacancy when he was elected to the assembly. That would probably be the R club appointment ...makes sense, but they could pick someone else. Finally, we have the wards. If '09 was the last election of Maruca and... then I might go back to my original statement of "no TR council up and on the ballot in 2012" All four wards would be on the 2013 election. Joe Haelig, how do you figure 2 ward seats coming up in 2012...if all wards are elected at the same time, and appointments run the term? need ya bad Mark! Bye on this one, til Monday!