James is a typical muderous technocrat. I bet he can't wait for Obama's death panels.

There are no death panels, but don't let your ignorance get in the way of a good rant.

When politically-appointed and politically-motivated Margaret Sanger desciples (The Independent Payment Advisory Board) are determining which medical procedures are covered and which ones are not...you indeed have a death panel.

Barb,HMOs have been doing that for years.

~Barb~ are you advocating no controls on medical costs? Doctors are allowed to preform procedures without regard to the effectiveness of the procedure or the cost? Charlatans and Quacks will love you.

Pundit: I'll take the advice of my doctor over that of a DC bureaucrat any day.

The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'

Obamacare provides for an "Independent Payment Advisory Board" which will ration medical care, and that means older and sicker people will be denied treatment that an unelected bureaucrat decides on. HMO decisions can be appealed (and a majority that are appealed are granted); there IS no appeal from the Obamacare Death Panels, oh, wait, the "Independent Payment Advisory Board" that RATIONS healthcare.

A good article on how Obamacare's healthcare rationing board will work: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/2012/10/21/ipab-president-obamas-nice-way-to-ration-care-to-seniors/

Yes,Katy,you can appeal an HMOs decision.Good luck with that.The fact is that 1 reason our healthcare costs are so high is because doctors order expensive tests when they aren't necessary,often to avoid being sued.Does every headache merit an MRI to rule out a brain tumor? I worked with a woman a few years back who demanded an MRI because her broken ankle still hurt 2 weeks after she broke it.And she got it.

There are no death panels. But having 48.8 million uninsured (US Census) is a type of death panel. According to a recent Harvard study, about 42,000 Americans die each year due to a lack of health insurance.

Stop lying, Joe. I'll repost this since you didn't read it the first time. Maybe you can find someone literate to break it down so you can grasp Obama's death panels.

"Obamacare provides for an "Independent Payment Advisory Board" which will ration medical care, and that means older and sicker people will be denied treatment that an unelected bureaucrat decides on. HMO decisions can be appealed (and a majority that are appealed are granted); there IS no appeal from the Obamacare Death Panels, oh, wait, the "Independent Payment Advisory Board" that RATIONS healthcare.

A good article on how Obamacare's healthcare rationing board will work: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatlas/2012/10/21/ipab-president-obamas-nice-way-to-ration-care-to-seniors/ "

Actually, it is the foregoing poster that may require some assistance in understanding the "Independent Payment Advisory Board." Independent, nonpartisan PolitiFact considered similarly deceptive claims made by rejected presidential candidate Mitt Romney and, after a detailed analysis, concluded such assertions are "mostly false," saying:

"OUR RULING

When Romney was talking about the Independent Payment Advisory Board and Medicare, he said, Barack Obama 'put in place a board that can tell people ultimately what treatments they're going to receive.'

He avoided the more inaccurate and harsher wording of some other critics, who have falsely described the board as 'rationing' care. But Romney’s claim can leave viewers with the impression that the board will sit around a table and talk about whether grandpa can get his bypass or not, and that’s not the case.

The board can reduce how much the government pays health care providers for services, reduce payments to hospitals with very high rates of re-admissions or recommend innovations that cut wasteful spending. And there are questions about whether that could lead to different treatment decisions, but Romney's comments give a misleading impression. We rate his statement Mostly False."

By the way, it was Paul Ryan -- whose moral muse regarding an individual's rights is Ayn Rand -- who similarly suggested cutting more than $700 billion from Medicare payments made to health-care providers and hospitals.

And what if your doctor screws up and misdiagnoses you?

BN - That's why you get multiple opinions.

Yeah, like Obamacare will let you get a 2nd opinion.

Not getting nutrition or hydration isn't "dying a natural death." Stopping extraordinary care in the face of a hopeless disease, when you are at the end of possible means of a cure, is one thing. Purposely starving or dehydrating any human being is murder.

Katy Lake - before the recent invention of intravenous and feeding tubes, all those who died because of an illness left them incapable of eating or drinking water were murdered? Our great-grandparents were murderers for watching helplessly as the life seeped out of their dying loved ones? Are you not aware that one of the signs of the dying process is for the person to stop eating and drinking water: a natural death which dates back to the times long before we even lived in caves.

IV drips were used at the beginning of the 20th century; feeding tubes were invented in 1951. The fact remains, Pundit, that they DO exist. To not use them is murder.

Do you have the same attitude towards people with cerebal palsy and other congenital illnesses that make eating by mouth impossible? Do you want them dead, too?

When someone stops eating and drinking, that could be a sign of impending death or a sign of illness. But when they can't feed themselves and YOU decide to cut off their food and water, you're contributing to their death.

That's murder. And from what I've seen, you don't even remotely resemble God.

Katy Lake - Do you realize there was a time before beginning of the 20th century? Well, it does not matter. I would enjoy discussing death with dignity with you if you could better control your emotions. Your comments "Do you want them dead, too?" and "you don't even remotely resemble God" is offensive. I could easily attack your character but I rather discuss death with dignity with dignity. Of course I have the advantage of having to make end of life decisions twice.

Really, really, you make no more sense than Katy Lake’s rant about the mass murders by communist atheists while she ignores the mass murders by Christian Adolph Hitler. You two seem to be way stressed out for me to write a response. So I am going watch some television instead.

Time for the government to stop interfering in our lives. People who sell raw milk are not criminals, nor are those of us with organic gardens. But we keep electing people in bed with Monsanto and Big Pharma. Monsanto poisons us with GMO's while Big Pharma is in the process of shutting down or taking over the supplement industry. If people just knew how they are poisoning themselves with the processed food we eat, there would be no need to pollute our lungs with cannabis to combat cancer.

Uncle Mo ..If you think smoking a joint and eating graviola will cure cancer, you better plan your funeral early.

Uncle Moe you have the real answer. THANKS

Terri Schiavo died from a natural death; but, Congress, the Bushes, the Catholic Church and many others tried to prevent her from dying. There were a number of actions filed and legislation written to prevent her feeding tube from being removed. Thankfully the Supreme Court ruled in her favor.
After making my decision, I faced resistance from the hospital staff. But the autopsy later proved there was never a reason for recovery. I do not believe her doctors were motivated by money because they were sincere in their belief that they could find a cure for her. But there has to be a point of saying it is too much; in her case the hospital bills came close to the coverage limit of a million dollars.
James is sincere in his belief but he is also wrong. He cannot accept that his skills to cure are limited because modern medicine is truly not advanced. In 100 years from now our medicine will be seen as barbaric. Uncle Moe is off the wall with his silly advice but I can understand where he is coming from. Many of us are scared of languishing helplessly in a hospital bed. When it is my time, I will probably turn down surgery. I have no plans of ever entering a hospital as a patient.

Pundit, depriving any human being of food or water isn't "natural." It's murder.

Maryann, I think you're correct about large sums of money being involved. For my wife's last eight days In JSUMC the total bill was about $68,000. That was basically for palliative care, she recieved wonderful care to keep her pain free, but it is a lot of money for eight days of pain meds and nursing care.

Maryann, suppose my Living Will says I want to be kept alive at all costs, no matter what the expense? You OK with that?

Katy - I'm fine with it as long as you pay for it.
If my living will calls for food and water to be withheld, are you Ok with that? Or do you need to check with your god first ?

mtwnres, of course I'm fine with you dying. Anything I can do to help?

Katy - wouldn't god be angry with you for making comments like that ?
Typical of the "religious".
Go to church on sunday to ask god to forgive you for being a b*tch all week.

Doctor shopping is a pretty darned complicated endeavor in this era where you are lucky if you find one specialist in driving distance that is part of the list of preferred providors. Most of us are over an insurance barrel. Our medical care has been rationed since before Obama was a gleam in anyone's eye. To blame all this on him is ridiculous. Our corporate culture gives us cancer and makes us pay for the cure. They make out financially on both ends. Doctors that are good are rare. They do exist.

I think it's a personal decision. The one thing I don't want anyone in a position of power to do is to be making the decision for someone else! If the sick person has made it clear they don't want to be offed, then let them live until nature takes its course.

I've been around a lot of sick people who eventually died, including a few who said they wanted to commit suicide if they were in a bad way. Without exception, every one of them, when push came to shove and WHEN their pain was adequately controlled, changed their mind. They did NOT want to die, if they could tolerate the pain.

I agree with you. Please let this law pass.

yes, we hypocrits would like to live in a perfect make believe world of religion or philosophy. For one to make the argument that religion or philosophy has a role to play in this is a bad idea. We are the same people that throw out everything rational or religious daily to get what's coming to us. what we've earned. all religion, as currently "practiced" hasn't a leg to stand on and should avoid being seen for the sad joke it has become. that goes for philosophy as well. we are still a bunch of neanderthals or actually worse, cause we killed off most of them long ago. lol. mankind will find a true religion and philosophy to live by after it again brings itself to the brink of extinction for not evolving fast enough. I hope and pray

I honestly do not understand your hostility toward religion and philosophy. What do you call the basis for your thoughts and actions? Do you at least see the importance of some norms for thought, belief and action? Are you just lashing out because you had some bad experience? What's the matter, George?

Monk why does the collective religious/philosophical tradition of a culture carries more weight? Throughout history important scientific and cultural advances have been blocked for fear of upsetting religious tradition.

Don't draw the wrong conclusion, Pundit. The collective religious/philosophical tradition of a culture carries more weight because that's how society/civilization works. I think anyone in a Giant's jersey who walked into a Philadelphia sports bar and announced, "The Eagles suck", would understand the weight of culture pretty fast. But culture is not static either. I'm just saying that swimming against the stream of culture doesn't get one very far, and seems rather foolish. I guess that's why sub-cultures and alternative cultures exist.

George is just pushing his own religion. Nothing is worse than an atheist fundie!

Maryann, what makes you think that people who are dying want to live just because they're afraid to die? Living is GOOD. It's much more natural to fight to live than to voluntarily flicker out.

I'd never presume to judge anyone's quality of life. It is, after all, THEIR life. If what you think is merely existing makes them happy, it's not up to you or me to judge it.

You'd be amazed at how many people who are on their deathbeds FIGHT to stay alive. I think the human spirit fighting to live is awe-inspiring. You may have a different take on it.

George, you don't have to go as far back as the ancient Egyptians for genuine mass murder. I'm just finishing reading yet another book on Soviet Communism, where the state religion was atheism. It's astonishing how may tens of millions were murdered by Lenin, Stalin, etc. They did it all in the name of their religion, which is the same apparently as yours.

I know atheists who are fine with my religious beliefs, or pretty much anyone's. That's because they think it's a personal decision, but they also don't believe God exists. Therefore, they don't hate what isn't THERE.

That at least makes sense. If you really think there's no such thing as God, why do you hate Him so much?

Oye

Geez, George, you sure are bitter. I pity you. No wonder you post on a column having to do with the merits of suicide! I can see where you're coming from!

Thanks to communism, we had a 100 million plus dead in the 20th century. I know, Moe, one person's death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic (Uncle Joe Stalin's quote.)

Why don't you just toke up and leave the heavy philosophical lifting for the adults?

Katy seems to know it all, but she doesn't.

I hate when a mine is poisoned. You have to completely evacuate and seal all entrances.

Oh wait, she said mine, not mind?

Okay then, still the same answer.

Too sweeping to say "Believing in anything on insufficient evidence is NEVER a good thing", Olive. That would seem to prohibit many admirable commitments people have made throughout history. People can eschew God and religion all they want, but when they turn around and pursue something secular with great commitment, only the object of the commitment is different. They are still trekking into the unknown on faith.

Suicide just seems like such an admission of failure or hopelessness. The sometimes hard, but always rewarding, task is to find meaning in life. At the least, make a little effort, please.

I wouldn't assume that Paul Ryan or numerous conservatives subscribe to every Ayn Rand thought.

To involve other people, especially physicians, in one's suicide is really, really perverse.

Steve, so what? Ayn Rand was also an atheist. Paul Ryan is not. Ayn Rand certainly isn't the first person to come up with free market economics!

It's possible to agree with some of a philosopher's tenets without buying the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel. I know you guys can't conceive of such a thing as individual thought. You swallow ALL of the left's hate filled agenda without a second thought...or for that matter, an initial thought.

BN, people who want to "die with dignity" by committing suicide CAN do it quite easily right now. They don't need any changes in the law.

But that's not what they're about. They want to extend the suicide pact to everyone, and eventually to people who cost too much money to keep alive.

Mark my words. It's NEVER just what they say it's about - there's always an ulterior motive.

Well Said Christopher! Well said.

Boldly and courageously seize control of your own life ... and commit suicide? It still sounds like an acceptance of failure or hopelessness.

Kate is right. There is nothing to prevent a person from committing suicide at present. So, why is legislation being proposed?

And there is certainly no call for bringing suicide under the aegis of healthcare.

Monk is correct, and he says it well. Suicide is an admission of failure, except for the mentally ill, who at least have an excuse. The suiciders who want to kill sick people usually have an ulterior motive. Many times it's to get their hands on the sick person's money (they consider it to be a "waste" if you spend your own money staying alive), or they're truly lunatics and think that people are a cancer on Mother Earth and the fewer of them, the better.

Of course, they never, ever, EVER volunteer to remove themselves from the planet. It's always someone else they say needs to die, and the sooner the better.

They are different from the mentally ill who for emotional reasons commit suicide - but they are unhinged, nonetheless.

Christopher is right. He says it better.